Lisa Hajjar<\/strong>: When it comes to the Middle East, one always thinks it cannot get any worse \u2013 and it always gets worse. We are seeing a period of multiple crises interlocking with each other that we have not seen since some of the major regional wars of the past like \u201867, \u201973, or the US invasion of Iraq. If we even just start with Palestine and with Israel’s war on Gaza that began in retaliation for the Hamas strikes on October 7, 2023, the amount of violence that Israel has been perpetrating in Gaza is absolutely unprecedented. It is plausibly and, in my opinion, obviously, described as a genocide because of mass killing of civilians, the complete destruction of every vestige of life and society in Gaza, and a brutality that is unprecedented in that particular context.<\/p>One of the things that I have been working on recently is how the war on Gaza is also playing out as a war on Palestinian prisoners in prisons. Aside from heightened forms of torture, there are deprivations that are paralleling the besieging assaults on Gaza.<\/p>
But the war on Gaza is never unto itself. There is also the ongoing and escalating war on Palestinians elsewhere: The military attacks and military-supported settler pogroms in the West Bank, the continuous and escalating seizure of lands and building of settlements, and so forth. All these phenomena together have really incited great concern and anger throughout the Arab world, because Palestine has always been a very significant lodestar in Arab politics. And it continues to be. Yesterday (August 24) in the ongoing confrontation between Israel and Lebanon – particularly Hezbollah in Lebanon – we have seen Israel engaged in what they call \u201cpreemptive strikes”.<\/p>
Israel struck deep into Lebanon in order to bomb what they claimed to be Hezbollah rockets that may have been aimed to target inside of Israel. One can think about the fraught tensions along the northern border \u2013 hundreds of thousands of Jewish Israelis have been displaced. They were ordered to move out of the harm’s way of Hezbollah rockets. So, we see that even Israeli society is absolutely roiled by the consequences of what the Netanyahu regime has done.<\/p>
But meanwhile, and not completely unrelatedly, we see the ongoing war on Yemen and then the role of the Houthis in striking Red Sea shipping and the consequences of Saudi and particularly United Arab Emirates intervention there. There is now a big oil carrying freight ship in the Red Sea that, if it is bombed, it can cause a catastrophic environmental disaster. Sudan is also in the grips of incredible violence, where the two parties that perpetrated a coup against the government are now fighting each other. There is horrific violence in Sudan, on a larger scale even than in Gaza in terms of the death toll. And that is being perpetrated by support from the United Arab Emirates. And then we can say Iraq and Syria remain deeply imbricated in war. Since the war in Iraq began with the US invasion of 2003, the country has never settled down. In Syria, the dictator Bashar al-Assad was able to put down the revolution, but the country remains in a civil war since 2011. So, it is extremely bleak.<\/p>
I have been working on a roundtable of interviews with Arab activists, and one of them is from Egypt.<\/p>
She talked about how the repression in Egypt now is worse under Abdel Fattah al-Sisi than it was even under Hosni Mubarak, who was ousted by a popular uprising against his dictatorship. In Tunisia, there were some really substantial democratizing gains for ten years in the post so-called Arab Spring revolution, but those were all terminated when the president, Kais Saied, dissolved the parliament in 2021 to endow himself with dictatorial powers. And then you\u2019ve got Morocco, a country that is actually becoming a model of carceral rule in certain kinds of ways. The king has really empowered the security forces in Morocco. They have used their diplomatic power to assert sovereignty over Western Sahara, and that has been the cause of renewed armed conflict. So, we are just seeing that when it comes to conflicts and violence, the region is really at a precarious point. Now we see with Israel bombing Lebanon, the possibilities of things getting even worse. And the absolute clown show that is the negotiations over a ceasefire in Gaza indicates that there is no end in sight for the suffering of Gazans. It is bleak.<\/p>
YAC: Going back to Palestine specifically, what we see here is a very interesting sort of <\/strong>conflicting claims-making. Jerusalem is the Holy Land for all Abrahamic religions, and a <\/strong>lot of Israeli claims are one way or another based on that biblical reference. And then, to <\/strong>describe the Palestinian misery, human rights discourse around the world has been <\/strong>employed. There is also the language of indigeneity \u2013 but it quickly boils down to a debate <\/strong>of who is the \u201ctrue\u201d indigenous people of the region. What framework do you find most <\/strong>useful in evaluating all these claims or upholding or challenging any (or all) these claims?<\/strong><\/p>LH<\/strong>: I am interested in many ways that various people make conflicting arguments about who belongs where or what is right and wrong. But my personal perspective is and always has been to evaluate the world through the lens of international law, to use law to judge what is happening.<\/p>In the context of historic Palestine, now Israel and the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip, there are very clear international laws regarding what should happen, which are separate from the indigeneity or the religious claims, etc. The remainder of historic Palestine was occupied in 1967 and remains occupied. Notwithstanding Israeli claims that they ended their occupation of Gaza in 2005, that was not actually true because according to international law, Israel was able to maintain effective control, and there was no replacement of sovereign entity. And because a country cannot unilaterally declare an end to occupation under international law.<\/p>
I like teaching international law to my sociology undergraduate students, and working with graduate students on these things, because it gives us a grounding to judge what we are seeing in the world. And also because Israel, like the United States, puts a great deal of stock in its own international reputation as a law-abiding state. Israel, in fact, probably more than the United States in past years, has strived to produce alternative interpretations of international law in order to bring their illegal activities within the law by saying that the territories are not occupied, that they are administered, that therefore there is no prohibition on the settlement of Jewish citizens. Israel was the first state to legalize torture, although they used the euphemism \u201cmoderate amounts of physical pressure. \u201dThey did that in 1987. Israel was the first state in the world to legalize targeted killing in 2000. The United States followed Israel in both things, and they did it by interpreting the law to try and make those kinds of practices legal.<\/p>
But one thing that is really significant about this current period is that the current Israeli government, the Netanyahu government, is the most right-wing of any Israeli government since 1948. And that is saying something because Begin, Shamir, and Sharon were all prime ministers.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t